rebellion!

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rebellion!

Post by Dracula on Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:30 pm

I have come across a piece of information that karel send out to the citizens of Camaar


karel wrote:Dear citizens of camaar,

Dracula (wich is no longer a member of the council) has implented a tax of the fields.

I have come across resistance of this in my mailbox! So I will return to no taxation at all on the fields.

Your mayor,
Karel
I would like to point out that I put on taxes after consulting with karel himself because Camaar is in dire need of money
guess how much money is in the treasury as off 24-11?
7 silver in total
I'd also like to point out i suggested 5% tax and included the math,after which karel said to put 10% tax on every field


I hereby declare myself a rebel against karel his regime
I will take economic sanctions against the town of Camaar as long as karel is the major


citizens of camaar,you have a choice

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Re: rebellion!

Post by karel on Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:42 pm

I must admit I did not tell the complete truth, I knew about the taxes on the field thats about it. You did not suggest the 5% taxation, but it was YOU (yes YOU) that suggested the taxation of the fields.

I wanted to have 5% but because you said it would have a income that would be to low I said it became 10% and then because you were interfering with.

About the treasury I must say that is a lie, I must say that it is
  55 Silver and 56 Bronze. wich is indeed lower then when I became in office but I have been gathering in recources for upgrades, for example the fields and the brewery I will set here all the events of today and yesterday so everyone can see that I am not lying :

4th of November 2013 22:00:The town earned 2 Silver and 10 Bronze by winning this weeks Town Games!
- 24th of November 2013 10:55:The Town Leader added some changes in the Council.
- 24th of November 2013 10:46:The lesson Basic Wound Treatment from teacher Lady Ithycena has been accepted for tomorrow.
- 24th of November 2013 10:46:The lesson Basic Writing from teacher Professor Dumblydore has been accepted for tomorrow.
- 24th of November 2013 10:46:The Town Leader added some changes in the Council.
- 24th of November 2013 10:42:The Town Leader added some changes in the Council.
- 24th of November 2013 02:24:The Town sold 9 Lottery Tickets and has gained 45 Bronze from taxes.
25th of November 2013 00:14:The Town did pay EvilShinchan06 10 Bronze for the healing process of tiberius.
- 25th of November 2013 00:14:The Town did pay EvilShinchan06 5 Bronze for the healing process of tiberius.
- 24th of November 2013 22:41:A new citizen (Mathias) has arrived at the gates of Camaar.
- 24th of November 2013 20:32:The Town did pay Keliha Greyson 15 Bronze for the healing process of tiberius.
- 24th of November 2013 20:32:The Town did pay Keliha Greyson 80 Bronze for the healing process of peste.
- 24th of November 2013 05:36:A new citizen (lordsamiam) has arrived at the gates of Camaar.
- 24th of November 2013 00:25:The Town did pay buzadam 5 Bronze for the healing process of tiberius.
- 25th of November 2013 07:45:The town received 2 Bronze from a citizen who paid the Market Tax.
- 25th of November 2013 00:13:The Town sold 2 bread for 68 Bronze.
- 24th of November 2013 23:19:The town received 21 Bronze from a citizen who paid the Market Tax.
- 24th of November 2013 23:10:The town received 3 Bronze from a citizen who paid the Market Tax.
- 24th of November 2013 22:18:The Town did pay Edric 30 Bronze for helping in the Town Hospital.
- 24th of November 2013 22:17:The town received 18 Bronze from a citizen who paid the Market Tax.
- 24th of November 2013 22:12:The town received 8 Bronze from a citizen who paid the Market Tax.
- 24th of November 2013 11:22:The town received 4 Bronze from a citizen who paid the Market Tax.
- 24th of November 2013 11:22:The town received 2 Bronze from a citizen who paid the Market Tax.
- 24th of November 2013 11:15:The town received 1 Bronze from a citizen who paid the Market Tax.
- 24th of November 2013 10:21:The town received 1 Silver and 30 Bronze from a citizen who paid the Market Tax.
- 24th of November 2013 08:28:The town received 2 Bronze from a citizen who paid the Market Tax.

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Re: rebellion!

Post by karel on Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:44 pm

As you can see dracula, you are lying!

People of camaar I must ask of you do not listen to this dracula! he is just mad because He quitted the council and can't come back! (or won't) and he lost the last election he he could not lead the town himself!

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Re: rebellion!

Post by Dracula on Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:57 pm

karel wrote:I must admit I did not tell the complete truth, I knew about the taxes on the field thats about it.
AKA blablantly lied to the whole town

karel wrote:You did not suggest the 5% taxation, but it was YOU (yes YOU) that suggested the taxation of the fields.

I wanted to have 5% but because you said it would have a income that would be to low I said it became 10% and then because you were interfering with.
i orginally suggested 5% and then noticed it would bring in about 40 bags/week,so i suggested we turn it up to 10%
keep in mind i didn't decide anything,i just put the idea on the table and let you decide
YOU made the final decision,not me!
take responsibility!



karel wrote:
About the treasury I must say that is a lie, I must say that it is
  55 Silver and 56 Bronze. wich is indeed lower then when I became in office but I have been gathering in recources for upgrades, for example the fields and the brewery I will set here all the events of today and yesterday so everyone can see that I am not lying :
tell me,how does 7 silver turn into 55 silver?,the events you listed gained at most 5 silver for the town
unless you're lying once again
i even copy-pasted the town treasury info into the tavern

maybe give some proof?,take a screenshot off the town treasury?




lol,you double-posted while i was typing a response,good thing the forum auto-detected it

karel wrote:
As you can see dracula, you are lying!

People of camaar I must ask of you do not listen to this dracula! he is just mad because He quitted the council and can't come back! (or won't) and he lost the last election he he could not lead the town himself!
i stated the facts,i did not lie at any moment
let me point out some more facts:

  • i quit the council because i was mad,i'm not mad because i quit the council
  • you didn't kick me out,i quit myself
  • the major of Spero is actually considering giving me a council position as adviser(one hour after i quit)
  • i lost the election because you could buy votes,i didn't buy a single vote
  • i would have won if there was no vote buying(btw,there wont be any vote buying next election)

i always been a voice of reason and open to discussion,you ignored all my advice including expanding the corn fields
plus i spoke out against the upcoming wheat field upgrade,which you also ignored

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Re: rebellion!

Post by Dracula on Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:17 pm

i did see 7S in the treasury yesterday,i even copy-pasted it into the tavern,and i dont see any substantial income in the recent events

and you completley ignored my other points,which is kinda expected from you by this point

why does spero have 2 gold+ and almost 200 members(and running smoothly) while Camaar has 55 silver

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Re: rebellion!

Post by karel on Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:49 pm

okay, lets go back to your previous post first then

AKA blablantly lied to the whole town
No I did not, I just said that you implented these taxes, wich is the absolute truth you were the field planner and you impleted these taxes. No lies here

i orginally suggested 5% and then noticed it would bring in about 40 bags/week,so i suggested we turn it up to 10%
keep in mind i didn't decide anything,i just put the idea on the table and let you decide
YOU made the final decision,not me!
take responsibility!
No you did not originally suggest the 5%, I did this is where you are lying. YOU (yes again YOU) said this would turn in to few bags so it became 10%

i stated the facts,i did not lie at any moment
let me point out some more facts:


  • i quit the council because i was mad,i'm not mad because i quit the council
  • you didn't kick me out,i quit myself
  • the major of Spero is actually considering giving me a council position as adviser(one hour after i quit)
  • i lost the election because you could buy votes,i didn't buy a single vote
  • i would have won if there was no vote buying(btw,there wont be any vote buying next election)
first that is what I said.
second that is what I said to.
third: why does this matter in this discussion?
forth:if I remember correctly, you only had your own 2 votes that you got. someone else would have won
fifth: again no

Next post, Seems like I missed the ranch events 45 silver income from a horse.

on that difference between axel and me

Axel is a born tradesman, and he is more charismatic then me. One reason could be is because there is a posebility that I have a form of autism (asperger syndrom to be more specific, and yes I am going to get myelf tested). He can make up a story about something that is completly logical and you would all accept it, I simply cannot do that.

(all quotes are from dracula)

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Re: rebellion!

Post by Dracula on Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:45 pm

karel wrote:No I did not, I just said that you implented these taxes, wich is the absolute truth you were the field planner and you impleted these taxes. No lies here



No you did not originally suggest the 5%, I did this is where you are lying. YOU (yes again YOU) said this would turn in to few bags so it became 10%
you made the final decision to set the tax as 10%,stop resisting this fact,i put up the estimates and YOU decided


karel wrote:he is just mad because He quitted the council and can't come back!
dracula wrote:i quit the council because i was mad,i'm not mad because i quit the council
you:
cause:quiting council
effect:being mad

me:
cause:being mad
effect:quiting council

don't get your facts twisted
dracula wrote:the major of Spero is actually considering giving me a council position as adviser(one hour after i quit)
karel wrote:third: why does this matter in this discussion?
my point here is that i actually got good advice,which you ignored

karel wrote:forth:if I remember correctly, you only had your own 2 votes that you got. someone else would have won
actually,i was in front off the election,then you and somebody else his votes shot up with brought votes,i even got several votes from spero and letters expressing their endorsement off me
i've suggested a re-election between you and me before,and you refused because you know the facts as well as me



[start being angry]

and now for the bigest piece of pie statement you ever made,you disgust me
karel wrote: One reason could be is because there is a posebility that I have a form of autism (asperger syndrom to be more specific, and yes I am going to get myelf tested).
you are using aspergers syndrome as a excuse you disgusting piece of chocolate with vanille taste
i have classic autism,and one of the worse cases of it at that,don't use autism as a excuse
i learn to cope with my autism,i work to better myself as a person,i'm limited by my autism in social interactions but i never use it as a excuse for saying something stupid,i take responsibility
i can't cook,i can't clean,i can't run a household,but i'm learning to cook and clean,learn to do my fiances,and other things
you just use it as a excuse,and you don't even know for certain you have autism
oh,and aspargers isn't even a valid diagnose anymore,do some research before making stupid claims


you disgust me


[stop being angry]



@aro sorry about the somewhat harsh lanquage,but i'm seriously pissed about this


Last edited by Lord Arogandor on Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:10 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : foul language)

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Re: rebellion!

Post by JpRagavan on Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:58 pm

Please Keep OOC discussion and comments out of this forum...

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Re: rebellion!

Post by Lord Arogandor on Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:02 pm

@aro sorry about the somewhat harsh lanquage,but i'm seriously pissed about this
Your out-game feelings, diseases, problems, joys and favourite music can be shared on our Forum, that doesn't mean we have take them in consideration. You clearly know the rules about the Grail Forum and in my opinion it was only a small effort to edit your posts. So excuses not accepted!


Camaar had some financial issues and that was a temporary concern. Karel did made some investments lately but I'm happy to announce that he managed to bring in some money back in the treasury. So there is no reason to worry about that any-more.


Furthermore, the rumour about new elections is not correct. There will be a voting poll in Camaar soon, asking the citizens of Camaar if they want elections again in their town or not. Depending on the results of that poll new elections might be arranged.

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Re: rebellion!

Post by karel on Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:36 pm

For the poll, will you make this thing that only people from camaar can vote? and that people who move to camaar can't vote? and such?

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Re: rebellion!

Post by Axel Ackland on Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:24 pm

Woah... this got outta hand...  Im not taking sides but I want to clear a few things up...

Dracula, like I said, noone on my council is an advisor, I gladly accept any advice from everyone, either town.  My council doesnt even do their respective jobs, it is mearly recognition for having a certain skill and willingness to selflessly help the town.  For example, our town's choice blacksmith, Robert, has the title "Man With the Iron Fists" even though hes our towns rector, your title is "Bob the Builder" due to your high labor skill, even tho youre the towns miller.

Im going to help how I can with the financial situation that Camaar is in...so please refrain from committing any economic warfare... and at the very least dont say it publically... cmon.  Oh and please dont ever again give out statements of how much a town, especially mine, has in its treasury, that should be obvious.

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Re: rebellion!

Post by Dracula on Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:52 am

I gladly accept any advice from everyone,
this here is key,you accept my advice,that was my point




if you say so,but one more thing that strikes me wrong from karel and i WONT hesitate to attempt to ruin camaars economy

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Re: rebellion!

Post by karel on Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:50 am

what are you going to do dracula? stop paying taxes when you come here?

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Re: rebellion!

Post by Keliha Greyson on Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:20 pm

Plenty of alternate forms of economic warfare Karel, it's one of the easiest kinds with sufficient money as well as simple production share.

However, that aside-I also had laid out a few theoretical plans awhile back in the council forums during my stay as market overseer.  If income is growing tighter, those will likely help supplement them.

It should also be noted that any time the town profits on the labor of the citizens, there have been complaints.  There were a few discussions in private over the town taxes, and many more concerns at various points under the old town centered market system.  Few part easily with their coin-your job is just as much to explain why it benefits them to part with it as anything.  Field taxes have never truly been used that I am aware, but are an available tool.  They allow the town to get goods-even if the producers stockpile it for themselves-which they can either sell open market(For things like potatoes or other shorting supplies) or use to upgrade field production.

My concern isn't about the field taxes-it's about the lack of labor in the fields.  I have begun doing some light figuring, having lost my serfs in recent days, to try and figure out an economic strategy to try and bolster my field labor and make ploughing profitable in comparison.  I will making my thoughts public soon though, but I came in for discussions here.

((Also, aspergers is a high functioning form of autism.  While it will hinder you in several ways, you can often find others who are sensible enough to turn skills such as language or other shortcomings to your cause.  As mayor, you have a title backing up your leadership skill, which makes it easier to draw out such individuals.

I have confirmed aspergers myself, it's greatest weakness for me is the fact that I am skilled at social endeavors-One of the effects is a severe awareness of people's thoughts and mood to the point I can often get an incling of how their RL mind is working simply through text.  This also leads to information overload and false positives of many kinds-but through years of personal effort I have managed to restrain this weakness to allow me greater strength.  Life is about overcoming hurdles, if you have aspergers it's likely you have quite a few highly developed abilities-use them to figure a way around your weaknesses.))

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Re: rebellion!

Post by Dracula on Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:12 am

^this is the truth
not paying taxes is pretty much useless



((thanks for explaining and sharing your story kaliha,i respect you more thanks to this Smile
also,did you know asperges is falling away as a diagnose and falling under classic autism apperantly? ))

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Re: rebellion!

Post by karel on Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:17 pm

(My greatest weakness kehila is social interaction, especially in real life in the non verbal comunication part. Tough my verbal comunication is quite strong (I can kind of speak 5 languages (2 fluently, one kind of fluent but not perfect and 2 that I can use if I'm on vacation that I can talk to the natives with). What I see as my biggest strenght is my eye for detail (I see small details that others just pass and never see even if they live around that place for ages)

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Re: rebellion!

Post by Dracula on Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:52 pm

(you DO realize that my autism also manifests in terms off social interaction and difficulty in managing daily tasks?
most off problems are in social awkwardness,in terms off making awkward jokes or say the wrong thing at the wrong time ect,and online it manifests in somewhat fierce reactions)

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Re: rebellion!

Post by karel on Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:50 am

(What do you think I'm going trough dracula?)

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Re: rebellion!

Post by Lord Arogandor on Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:52 am

Although this is extremely interesting for the entire grail community, could we go back to topic now?

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Re: rebellion!

Post by Dracula on Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:00 pm

anyways,i suggest you prepeare your defense for the city,because you got about a few weeks after aro implements rebellions

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Re: rebellion!

Post by karel on Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:27 pm

I quote from the letter of Arogandor

In the near future, the code for starting an town uprising will be added. This code will allow Seekers who are unhappy with their Townleader give a strong signal and even remove an possible unworthy Town Leader.

Please read that it's their townleader, are you going to move again just for the sake of having your will done Dracula (Tough this might come across as offensive, I'm tired and don't get other words than these to give the message) Otherwise, I don't see anything that refers having an army and storm the walls of a city.

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Re: rebellion!

Post by Dracula on Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:52 am

i highly suspect ill be able to at least help out with a town uprising,though aro should comfirm/time will tell

besides,the people have spoken and want you gone

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Re: rebellion!

Post by Norrie on Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:05 am

Dracula wrote:besides,the people have spoken and want you gone

What people have spoken and where? 

Results of the last poll showed karel still having enough support to stay in office.
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Re: rebellion!

Post by TheHeirtotheThrone on Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:28 am

Norrie wrote:
Dracula wrote:besides,the people have spoken and want you gone

What people have spoken and where? 

Results of the last poll showed karel still having enough support to stay in office.


26 citizens of Camaar did answer the latest poll. 14 people did vote for new Elections against 12 who prefer no new elections.

I don't have a pony in this race, but the polls do say a majority wants an Election.
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