Halloween mechanics question

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Halloween mechanics question Empty Halloween mechanics question

Post by Cpt_Coot on Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:03 pm

For clarification, do we lose 1 point of damage for each negative chance to hit on our weapon, or just gain one for each positive chance to hit point. It specifies "positive chance to hit" but just wanted to double check. In my heavy armor setup, I have -9 chance to hit, which (if negative damage applies) would mean my axe does less damage than my bare hands. Will I lose 9 damage, or does only positive apply?

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Post by Lord Arogandor on Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:14 pm

The damage you deal with your weapon, is influenced by the initiative and to hit factor of the equipped weapon. So yes, if your weapon negative factors are higher than the damage it deals, you might want to swap the weapon for this event. However, you can never deal negative damage, the absolute minimum damage a weapon deals is always 1.


Also keep in mind we are talking about 1 particular weapon at the time. Meaning if you use 2 weapons (one in each hand would be the logic) than the game checks the stats for the main hand. When you strike with your additional weapon, the game checks the values of that and only that weapon. Any armor equipped has 0 effect what concerns damage. The only effect equipment has (other than the main and off hand) is the skill bonus attached to that equipment.

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Post by Cpt_Coot on Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:54 pm

Wow, so this legendary 2h axe only deals 1 damage. So glad I spent years trying to get it to kill qwirkys even though they die instantly with a hit from anything. This change negates years of work to get weapons for some of us, and makes me feel personally like all the effort put in was total waste. You're telling me that a top tier weapon is entirely useless and may as well be a bandalf staff, meanwhile the couple people who have nunchucks and teddy bears and the such just got the biggest buff ever.

Due to lack of enemies, combat is effortless. I can kill a town guard naked with a simple staff on, and that's the highest enemy available to us. Those of us who focused on combat and gear did it for years for these events only, because for years, no more difficult monsters have been introduced and it has become harder to find any high level monsters. If our stats and gear are useless in these events, all the effort, resources, and grail tokens poured into them were useless.

I'll be sitting this one out if my entire gear set is useless, and frankly am struggling with the will to even log on after wasting years of effort due to no thoughts of balance. I understand experience may change due to updates, but this is more than moving the goalposts, this is straight up changing what game we're playing.

Edit:
To illustrate, a few samples under these new rules:
Combat skills granted on the item have been factored in.

Bandalf's staff (2h): 2 damage average
Burthulda's greataxe (2h): 2.9 damage average
Teddy bear (1h): 29 damage average
Dreadful smasher (2h): 3 damage average
Spiked club (1h): 8.5 damage average
Carnifex crescent (grail) (1h): 8.1 damage average
Virydyn's smile (1h): 12 damage average

So much for those of us who tried to gear our way. Seems like its pointless.

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Post by Lord Arogandor on Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:41 pm

Cpt Coot you've been with us for over 4 years now.
You've seen me make constant mistakes over those years. It surprises me that you get so upset about this.  I like to believe that this could been mentioned in another way to me.


Of course you are right, and of course this should be adjusted.


We added the initiative & to hit stats of weapons to the combat output (on Seeker's request) because indeed initiative and to hit have no effects in the events. So the most easy -and maybe logical- solution could be to neglect any form of negative bonus?

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Post by Cpt_Coot on Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:05 pm

Fair point, I deleted my announcement, but how often do any suggestions I make or issues I bring up have any bearing with you unless I make a ruckus? You listen to some of us and not to others, and I know which category I fall into.

I mean, that would make it a little better, but by including the positive bonuses you are still creating 1h weapons that deal triple the damage of 2h weapons of the same rarity. These bonuses are not balanced with each other to reflect damage, especially when agility, the main source of "to hit", and the main source of initiative, speed, is being used as .1 damage per point. I assume this was suggested by a seeker holding a teddy bear or two daggers, as it makes their advantage insurmountable.
It would take 200 personal stats just to match up to the +10/+10 on a teddy bear. These numbers were never balanced to be applied to damage, some of the 1h initiative and to hit are insanely unbalanced. A teddy bear dealing 29 damage average is insane, and a dagger dealing way more damage than a 2h hammer is a little insane. Why don't initiative and to hit affect other things that have less impact so their lack of balance is watered down. Initiative could affect double strike chance, like first strike. To hit could affect max effect, like arms master.

Sorry I got a bit heated, but these changes are really one sided, and really feel like they just make Spero yet again seriously handicapped in the event, which has been the theme of event changes for 2 years. I know we used to dominate combat events, and back then I said I'd welcome more balance, but each time it feels like something directed squarely at us is a last minute change, despite the effort our citizens put into combat to dominate combat events when we did. Don't fault me for raising a ruckus, when the seekers you listen to to make changes like this are giving more and more advantage to make it one sided for a certain other town who already has the advantage due to funds and resources. Those of us who have been here a long time prepare for events all year long to represent our town, to have the rug pulled out from under us unexpectedly.

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Post by Helfdane on Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:21 am

I agree with Cpt. Coot. 

Two handed users have been horrifically neglected. Just look at the Two Handed bonus in the event. It seems like it would effect even 1h weapons, does it not? The entire bonus of using a 2h weapon over dual wielding is for the +2% damage bonus of the Two Handed skill. But every time an event comes out, the skill gets completely handicapped. Which I guess is progress since it used to just never be used at all. 

The teddy bear is a comically unbalanced part of the game, and I have always viewed it as such. I imagine you regret ever giving them out, but they're out there now, and whoever has them will just dominate events, which gets them top rewards, which gets them yet more top tier gear, which makes them continue to dominate the next event and get more top tier gear. 

Which is fine as long as getting enough points to gamble is achievable without 10+ stamina potions. We'll see.

I do like the combat events, don't get me wrong. My complaints are just with the balancing of weapons and how those stats effect the events. Especially how Two Handed skill is COMPLETELY different between normal combat and the events. I have to re-tool my character completely or just get completely left behind.

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Post by Lord Arogandor on Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:49 pm

+ Initiative & To Hit: creating a random value between 0 and the value of the equipped weapon. Lowering it's effect.
+ Two Handed Fighting: I will compare it with the Dual Wielding Skill and adjust it's effect.

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Post by Cpt_Coot on Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:03 pm

So are negative to hit and initiative bonuses going to affect the damage negatively on weapons, or are positive bonuses only what will be applied in a range? Sorry, I know you're still tweaking the formula, but we're running low on time to reset combat skills.

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Post by Lord Arogandor on Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:56 am

- Any negative value on your equipment is neglected, so -6 becomes 0.
- Does your weapon have +6 to hit/initiative. You will add additional damage ranging anywhere between 0 and 6 additional damage.
- Arms Master will not affect to hit & initiative in anyway.
- 2 handed fighting will not affect to hit & initiative in anyway.

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Post by Lord Arogandor on Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:38 am

We added some last minute changes for the Halloween Event:

+ For greater transparency, we did split the weapon damage into separate parts:
- Combat Skill damage, which is the damage you deal based on the related weapon skills.
- Weapon damage, which is based on the damage, to hit and initiative from the weapon.
- Special damage (weakness, two handed fighting).

+ The weakness damage (Piercing, Slashing & Crushing) has been increased from 0.25 to 0.50 damage per skill point.
+ Two Handed Fighting has now a greater effect, similar to the Dual Wielding.

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Post by Godsfortune on Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:43 pm

Working on combat can't be easy as so many things need to be added and considered. Just remember that Aro is on our side and wants to make a great game for us all. Rome wasn't built in a day. 
It's nice to see everyone's point of view. I'm curious how it will all pan out and sure that we will learn how to improve the game even more after the event results ( =


Last edited by Godsfortune on Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:44 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : punctuation)

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Post by Cae Indru on Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:29 pm

"The Weapon Damage is the sum of:

  • a random value between its minimum and maximum damage (value can never be lower than 1).
  • a random value between 0 and the to hit value (value can never be lower than 0).
  • a random value between 0 and the initiative value (value can never be lower than 0)."


I can understand the random of weapon damage as all weapons have different damage range and the damage should have a value between minimum and maximum.

But i can't understand why we have so much random for to hit and initiative values considering that those reflect the stats, our effort to become better in skills and equipment.

We can also have a situation when the weapon damage is 1 =  1 (weapon damage) + 0 (to hit value) + 0 (initiative value). A lucky newbie can do more damage than the best warrior.
Imagine a level 20+ warrior having a base damage of 1... using special equipment.


If you want to reduce damage, simply increase the missing percent or the chance for opponent to avoid the hit, don't use random to help us leave the game...

Ps... There are almost 4 years since i am waiting for this game to improve. Instead of that, the game is worst with each update... The combat was better when i joined the game, now it is a bad joke.

 Good advices are ignored and bad advices are implemented. That's really sad for a game with a great concept and true potential.

 3,5 years ago> Around 150 seekers online.
 Now > Seekers Online yesterday: 224.

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Post by AxineeHearth on Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:20 am

I must agree with Coot and Cae Indru.

I am normally a contender for the top 5 placements in a combat event. My agility, strength, luck and speed is 8-15th highest in game, my HP is 250, and I have a decent enough Master crescent axe and burebista's scutum shield. I also have several grail pieces equipped.

Sadly, neither my axe or the scutum has any positive to hit values or initiative. I am wearing equipment with to hit and initiative values, but they do not count. So unless I'm spending 40 grail stamina potions + presents, and the one with a teddy bear and one of the fancy knifes does not, I'm not getting a good placement. So, I'm forced to just tangle along for the first 10 000 damage to get a few silver and help Spero a bit. There's no incentive for me to plan this any further (even though I HAVE been planning it for a long time - I've cooked healing, speed, luck etc potions, been working on my combat level and so forth - a lot of effort.) 

Here's my take:
1. To hit and initiative should only be allowed to add AT MOST 10 % extra damage.
2. Two handed bonus must be increased. (It's really easy for the game devs to simulate some results in an excel sheets, since you have all the variables at the ready. there shouldn't be much difference (before combat stat bonuses) between dual wield and two handed setup).
3. The one factor that should impact damage the most is personal stats! Personal stats are expensive to raise and takes a loooong time. Those who prioritise personal stats should have an advantage.

If you're gonna go with random numbers, Aro, at least add a multiplier, X/100, where X is the average of a player's Agility, Strength, Speed.

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Post by Cpt_Coot on Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:24 pm

Ooo, axinee I do like the idea of matching randomness along with a constant based on stats that are already factored in to create diminishing returns on rng itself. We're getting a little complicated for last minute changes, but some system like that in the future could be used to control this "way too hot or way too cold" thing that goes on every time event mechanics get shifted.

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Post by Cpt_Coot on Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:16 pm

Is the low life stamina penalty disabled?

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Post by Lord Arogandor on Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:05 am

The stamina penalty for having low life during the daily reset has temporarily disabled.

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