How to see Sustaining Skill gain?

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How to see Sustaining Skill gain? Empty How to see Sustaining Skill gain?

Post by Helfdane on Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:54 pm

I just had a grail cauldron break. I did not get any message informing me of any gains to my sustaining skill.

How do I know I gained anything, and by how much?

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Post by Lord Arogandor on Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:05 am

Thank you for reporting Helfdane.


I've made few changes concerning this topic:
- When an item breaks during usage Seekers receive experience on their Sustaining Skill equal to 10 stamina. In the past few items gave Sustaining Skill upon breaking based on the max durability, others didn't give anything.
- When destroying an item on purpose at your item chest, you no longer receive experience related to the max durability of that item but instead receive experience based on the durability left of that item.
- It's no longer possible to cook more soups than there's durability left on the Cauldron. Closing a small but possible abuse of low quality Cauldrons.

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Post by Terrai on Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:55 am

I did some math on this new way of Sustaining, and here’s what I found.

To get to level 20 in Sustaining someone would have to break 200 tools.  To get to level 100 they would have to break a total of 2,283 tools.

Then I tried to calculate how many tools an average Seeker goes through per year.  Let’s say that in one year I used a Cauldron, a Pickaxe, a Wood Axe, two Butchers Knives, a Plough, an Herb Bag, a Bed, a Sleeping Bag, and a Blanket.  That’s 10 tools, but I likely go through fewer tools than that per year.

At this generous rate, it would take 20 years for your average Seeker to hit level 20 in Sustaining.  To hit level 100, you would have to play for over 228 years, so if you start at age 13 (Terms of Service) you’d have to live to be 241 years old, and then you’d finally get to see “Sustaining: 100” as you took your final breath.

Sustaining was already one of the hardest skills in the realm to raise, along with Smelting, Mercantile, Bookkeeping, etc.  However, it was possible to raise it over time.

Before this change, when I broke a pickaxe, I would think, “Oh that’s sad. I have to make a new pickaxe.  Well, at least I got a Sustaining bonus - cool!”

With the change, I’d be thinking, “Oh that’s sad.  I have to make a new pickaxe.  And I’m 1/2283 done with my Sustaining skill.”

Frankly, that just kills my excitement for that skill.  Even if you received 100-stamina’s-worth per tool, it would still take 28 years to max the skill.  To put it another way, if the skill gain was 10x as good, it would still be a significant nerf to a skill that was already one of the hardest to raise in the whole realm.

Personally, I’d love to see the current system expanded so that Cauldrons and other tools also give Sustaining experience.  I feel like the current system was working well, and just needs to be expanded across all the tools.

Anyway, sorry to bother you with another tome about another nerf, and in the end, I don’t care that much about this one comparatively.  But for me at least, it would significantly lower my excitement about this skill (thus, to a lesser extent, the whole game).  Second, whenever there are nerfs it hurts newer players, who didn’t get to raise their skill when it was (comparatively) easy.

Anyway, that’s all.  As always, it’s your game and your decision, but I wanted to at least share my thoughts about this.
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Post by Helfdane on Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:55 am

I'm sure that old age stuff will be cured any time.

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Post by Lord Arogandor on Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:48 am

Thank you for your reply Terrai,

When Helfdane started this topic I realized that destroying a tool with full durability or just 1 durability left made no difference. So destroying tools give now experience based on what durability is left. Logic and no complains so far Smile

But when you break a tool by using it has per definition 0 durability left, it's difficult to then give the Seeker a larger bonus for the Sustaining Skill then if he/she would break it on purpose.

So, that was the "logic" behind it Very Happy Now, I'm confident that it is just a small change if we would find a better solution that fits both for the players as for your beloved but slightly insane Lord.


Originally none of the skills were actually designed to reach 100. And it is only due to the devotion of Seekers that reaching 100 became a "thing". In my vision, reaching 100 on each Skill in a realistic way isn't still something that MUST be considered when changing skills. I'm all up for balancing the Realm, but making it possible for a certain % of the players to reach 100 on a skill isn't part of that.

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Post by Terrai on Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:06 am

Yeah that’s reasonable Aro, and thanks for your response. Are you talking about items only (armor) or tools like pickaxes? I feel like changing items makes a lot of sense, and I’m all for that.

For tools like a pickaxe, I feel like the current system is already good from a gameplay-enjoyment plus a realism perspective. When my pickaxe has 1 durability, it’s because I’ve been mining consistently for a year, gaining knowledge in how to treat the pickaxe, keep it from breaking, and help it last longer. So even though it has 1 durability, the high skill gain accurately reflects all the time I spent using that tool. So in that sense, someone who uses a pickaxe down to 0 actually has spent more time taking care of tools, and gained more experience taking care of tools. Does that make sense?

But yeah, as far as items like armor I have no issues, so if that’s all your doing then I just misunderstood - my bad haha.
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Post by framer on Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:40 pm

I think that sustaining should definitely stay one of the hardest skills to raise because of its effect, but I agree with Terrais excellent points: it feels pretty bad and doesn't make much sense "lore"-wise that a seeker would learn just as much about the upkeep of their tools from completely using up their 9000 durability Grail pickaxe over the course of many months of mining and lighting a pair of cheap fur gloves they found on a dead thug on fire (both should give 0.1 sustaining skill in this system?).

I never paid much attention to the sustaining skill myself, but my impression is that most players that are leveling it by actively destroying items generally use equipment from combat drops for it (fur armors, spiked clubs, spears) and only break very low durability craftable tools/items that don't give any sustaining skill when breaking naturally (like beds and cauldrons).

A distinction between equipment and craftable tools/items for the sustaining skill would possibly solve this, but I think it would be a good idea to at least keep some incentive to breaking those combat drops (maybe a skill similar to sustaining but for the wear and tear of worn equipment?).

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Post by Lord Arogandor on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:49 pm

All right, I will put it back on the todo list and see what we can do Smile

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Post by Cpt_Coot on Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:24 pm

Preach it terrain!  If all tools give the same sustain, I have motivation to just use cheap tools for everything, rather than trying to get more expensive tools.  It takes 6x as long to break a Grail butcher knife, so feels like it should give 6x the sustain, but that's just my thoughts...  Otherwise, I guess WTB cheap butcher knives and cheap barrels en masse!

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Post by Lord Arogandor on Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:46 pm

Dear Seekers,
The amount of Sustaining Skill is now based on the item's quality. Seekers receive now experience worth of 10 stamina * item's quality. So a broken Grail Item does provide you with 6 times the experience you would receive for a cheap Item.
In addition, the amount of Sustaining Skill gained when an Barrel breaks is now also 10 stamina * item's quality instead of 4 stamina * item's quality.

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