Game Play: Economics

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Game Play: Economics

Post by Airy on Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:01 am

I am sure a few of you do this already, but Id like thoughts from everyone and maybe even create an awareness for those that are struggling with getting their goods sold, or their income balanced enough to purchase goods or sell goods themselves - with the hopes of selling them.

My personal experiences:
Right now, I am training to be a Herbalist and Alchemist, with a sideline in milling, baking, cooking and blacksmithing [I never make enough money to purchase these high-end price goods]. I know that I am doing the following wrong *see below* to 'get ahead' in game, but lets say that Im only just learning about economics at Uni, and decide that Ive made a moral choice in my costs for now Smile. I already see signs that I am not sustaining myself in my wants..needs, yes, but wants no.

So my market practice as a seller right now is this: I put the potions on sale for 1 silver, basically charging 10 bronze an ingredient plus .05 labour, which is less than what I charge to have someone labour in my corn field. But then again the corn field is unrelated now to what I sell as my proffession, since that corn field gives me other benefits and is worth a higher price. I was just using the price difference as an example.

What I realised while I was working on my potions and herb gathering, is that I was ignoring the sales on the private market as things that I could make myself, eveeentually anyway. Wink But then I thought about it, when I had enough money in my bank to purchase the goods of other players and did not, that I wasnt allowing them to do their job and progress themselves, yet, nor was I progressing in any one area either. I was stagnating and bringing up all my skill levels at the same time, or going so far as to ignore the use of luxury items, just because I told myself, I dont really need them and the price was far to high for the benefit gained. I was waiting for Grail level goods, and then I'd purchase...but if I dont purchase now, and others dont purchase now...that then means that no one will want to continue driving their skill levels so high as to get to Grail Level. See the Paradox here?

Too much of this game isnt going to work if I dont let the carpentars be carpentars (purchased a cheap bed the other day that I could have made myself, that was in a reasonable price range), and the tailors be tailors (purchased a normal blanket, and a normal belt, that I could not have made myself, still at a price only a little dearer than I should I have been able to make myself, had I had the skill level)...those purchases are what are going to encourage game growth and people playing, so I did it.

Best Practices for the Seller:
So anyway, I know that some people are doing this already, and some are not, by the way our personal market isnt really moving so fast. Some of this is because people are charging ridiculous prices for their labour, I get it, that your a Master or Expert and believe you might have no competition, or derserve the higher prices now, but really...it takes a long time to sell your good, and then be able to make more...the sense is to look at it and sell your good so that you can make more and sell again, as long as your selling your good for .5 labour (without doing the maths) you're not losing out! Because 1) that is the basic amount you can make on town jobs, without skills and 2) you are earning skill levels, their worth something! Case in point: When you're going to earn a Grail Master title one day. You would get there faster wouldn't you? Too? Then when you are there this is where I would add on a little extra or even a lot..just not at the lower stages Wink.

Advice or Best Practices for Consumers:
For the consumers that are not normal, expert, master or grail in any areas, once you can afford to stop making and using cheap items in these areas, usually when you single out a few trades and decide not to do them all to do yourself, start looking at the person next door spending all their stamina to make them a normal, expert etc in areas that you lack in, and realise that their hardwork can pay off for you, by allowing you to purchase goods that you cannot make yet, or will take years for you to get to that level. Then, suck it up and buy their goods, so in turn we get better goods. Is there is a reason that their are too few Grail Lords here yet? Yes, because people are not allowing others to practice their trade. This will only work Producers, if you start to bring your prices under control and at a price that people can afford them.

I make a decent profit on my potions really at the end of the day, if I decide that they are worth 10 bronze each (even the hard to find kind), when I can find 25 to 40 a day, that means that I am earning a 4 silver a day wage. (It doesnt really amount to that, since I get an excess of ingredients on those hunts that I dont want, and can only sell those to the town for .5 bronze a day - then I make 2 silver a day, oh dear..*little dry sarcasm there Wink*...So still without working the maths to death, 1 silver per potion, is a good profit for me, due the amount of ingredients that I find and the price I and the town have put on them. Just as an example so people like iron miners can do the same with their goods, etc.

*The first in many series of lectures...I kid..or do I...^^*

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Re: Game Play: Economics

Post by Lord Arogandor on Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:18 pm

me is already looking forward for the next lecture of Airy the Economist:heart:

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Re: Game Play: Economics

Post by Airy on Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:21 pm

Hee hee, thanks Aro, I'm also hoping that people will get involved with the argument/discussion and put out there what they do to get along, particularly in their field. I think I have managed to find a workable price for my potions that mean that I earn more than I would staying at home, but also ensures quick turn around sales...maybe too quick, which means that there's room to increase the price slightly without the customer feeling that the price is too high. I do after all need to ensure that I can persue my craft and help others persue theirs by being able to purchase their goods.



So what about the rest of you, persuing your areas?

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Re: Game Play: Economics

Post by Douhugal on Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:56 am

Yeah I noticed that my beds weren't selling and I know that people want normal items. So Even if I don't sell these beds for high prices I will still build them for they are the easiest way to get my carpentry skill up.

I dropped my own bed price from 11 to 8 50. Just because I realized that the benefits didn't weigh up to the costs to make it and the cost in money that I was asking. If I start getting an overload of beds I might have to start lowering the price even more.

It seems to me that you should look at the benefits and determine the cost of an item and not at their creation benefits.

On the other hand... Dang a normal wood axe costs a lot!
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Re: Game Play: Economics

Post by Bracken on Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:15 am

I charge 0.5 bronze per labour unit for my clothier goods, plus the cost of materials. Since they're selling as fast or faster than I can make them, I probably could afford to raise prices a bit, but then again, there isn't any competition on clothier goods right now.

The trouble with beds, blankets etc, is that there's a naturally limited market for items. Once everyone has one, it lasts forever, so they don't need another. Tools, on the other hand, break and have to be replaced regularly.

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Re: Game Play: Economics

Post by Airy on Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:49 pm

:/ Didnt I buy a cheap bed from you Douhugal? or was that someone else, it was at the price that had I got the materials from the market, I could have made it myself, so I tried to reward that by buying it instead. I'll buy a normal bed next when I can afford it, and its on the market at the right price.

My idea with this is to educate the buyer, as well as the seller. If we don't buy the goods that last, even at the lower stages, then none of us can really get ahead. Or there is some way other way, the more we talk about our experiences the more we can figure it out I thin

First off, from both of you, I get the feeling that the reason your goods are selling Bracken is I think the same reason mine are, their at the right price. Beds then, possibly even at the right price, aren't items that buyers see any benefit for. I mean take a look at my reasons for purchasing a cheap bed. I dont feel Im getting a good payback for the money I spent on the bed. I feel like I helped a fellow towns person out...thats really no way to do business...Douhugal will go out of business fast, if his customers are only supporting him out of good feeling.

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Re: Game Play: Economics

Post by anto_capone on Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:45 am

I usually charge .5, plus materials as well. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

Normal shaft = 1.75 (100 units = .5; 5 wood = 1.25)
Expert = 2 (150 units = .75; 5 wood = 1.25)
Master = 2.10 (200 units = 1; 5 wood = 1.25) 2.25* discounted down because easy to make. I can make 3 of these on a good day.

Master Barrel = 5 (400 units = 2 silver; 3 wood = .75; 1 iron bar = 2.25)

Beds take too long to make, so I charge more for them. I don't like making them, honestly. I'd rather make barrels or shafts or even cheese curdles if I can find the appropriate steel ounces.

Master bed = 35 (4000 units = 20; 25 wood = 6.25) 26.25* marked up, because difficult/long to make. It takes me 10 days to make just one of these.
I charge almost .72 for master beds, but if someone wanted a cheap/normal bed I'd make it for cheaper, because it will only take a day or three compared to a ten day marathon for a 4000 unit bed.


Just wait until next week, when I'm making grand master beds. Razz
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Re: Game Play: Economics

Post by anto_capone on Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:16 am

After a mild spending/donation spree my beds are cheaper because I'm broke again. Razz
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Re: Game Play: Economics

Post by Airy on Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:10 pm

Heh...I just bought one. I think your price justification is reasonable. I couldnt buy your bed till now, because I never had 35 silver on me at anyone time. ^^

What I get from this is, in order to get carpentars to make the better beds, they need to make a reasonable profit from them, when it becomes 10 days to make a bed. So what we need to look at then is why would buyers spend that sort of money to get your Master bed rather than leave it on the market. I'd say then that the benefit needs to be worth it, PLUS it needs to become a durable item that eventually needs to be replaced.

But thats just what it looks like, have to take into consideration if people get too much benefit with stamina from the bed and its effect on everything else, but then again, maybe it can increase their joy and reputation...or something like that.

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