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New Economic Update!

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Post by Guest Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:25 pm

If this doesnt work what do people think of the proposed quest thing it could help aleaviate the mass of goods preventing people from selling there things. I still think this system has merit. I don't really see the harm in trying it we have to be willing to change to be willing to see if it might help the towns.

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Post by Axel Ackland Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:43 pm

Iron is sold by the players to the towns. There are such things as miners who are also blacksmiths Razz There's about as much of a chance to run out of iron permanently in the game with a town market's use as without it.

My personal guess at what's going to happen... people sell tons items to the towns, which in turn may go bankrupt. Aro compensates the towns and the economy becomes inflated, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I think it's more likely all the new money which is inflated, will go mostly to those already rich.

Anto, set items that are not wanted to 1 bronze... It'll make the whole update mostly pointless, but its a good idea.

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Post by Lord Arogandor Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:27 am

Anto, set items that are not wanted to 1 bronze... It'll make the whole update mostly pointless, but its a good idea.

It doesn't make the update pointless, it is just the right thing for a town leader to do Smile
Setting unwanted items at 1 bronze is more or less the same as the old maximum cap.
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Post by Guest Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:14 pm

Appearently a lot around here want to be filthy rich, well I think everybody should have an equal chance to get wealthy

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Post by Guest Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:15 am

I honestly don't care how much money I have as long as I have enough to bake and cook for my town.

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Post by Lord Arogandor Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:13 pm

*Update installed in the game*
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Post by Axel Ackland Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:50 pm

This should've been discussed much more...

I don't even think we've talked about how Spero's market is going to become stagnant, while most likely Camaar will be less affected due to their ability to put more money into purchase funds each day.

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Post by Guest Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:35 am

Camaar?
"Today's remaining purchase funds: 10 Bronze"
(5 hours after reset) 😢

I've never had an issue selling my herbs to the market, except for 1 or 2 types that were overstocked, The overstocked ones, I would just trade with the witch for ones that the town needed.

Now I suspect that the market will just overflow with Deadly Monkshade & Willow Anther that will never be bought and I'll have to log in within minutes of reset to sell the ones that are in demand.

sigh...

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Post by Axel Ackland Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:57 pm

lmao I can personally stop Spero from making any profit every day. Still think this system is open to abuse Razz

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Post by Guest Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:09 pm

Yes, and I've set the buy prices for some of those overstocked herbs to 0 as a result.

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Post by anto_capone Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:05 pm

I still think this update is not logical.

Why should a town be forced to buy things it does not want or need?

This update is essentially changing the town into a stock exchange instead of a market.

Really wish things with the economy would stop changing, its making things harder and more confusing. Thinking about economy things just isn't too much fun for me, but I'm still looking forward to the non-economic additions.

I know the virtual economy means a lot to you Aro, so I will reserve my ranting for now. I will say this: that there are a ton of really good ideas that can improve this game, and none of them are about the economy; but many will help the virtual economy as a side effect.
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Post by Guest Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:30 pm

To be honest, I agree that the economic system is bad for most. In addition I really believe that I'm personally even worse of than allothers. Since I specialised using all my stamina and money I'm hardly able to keep 'my head above water'. I really have only 2 silver left and I cannot sell stuff because of the cap every time (oh I managed to sell 2 potatoes yesterday). And yes I have to eat! I already stopped keeping 3 animals long ago because I had foreseen this disaster. Ok, I could try sell some potions at lower price than others (why are all of you suddenly making potions?) but than I loose because I payed you all very generously for making them. In conclusion: I'm thinking about taking a month leave again and hope things will be better when I return :-(

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Post by Guest Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:49 am

My opinion is that if a town leader checks his market daily, or has staff in his council to do this. This system will be beter.

1- All the power remains with the city:

* they can determine what to buy and what to sell by changing prices. I think nobody will sell his wheat at 10 bronze.


* they can also determine how much money they are investing at a daily base to the local economy.



As for now, the caps didn't stimulate the townleaders to really pay attention to the market, they just had to block the goods they had enough from and raise the price of goods they needed. There was no need to make them consider 'a policy' that is mutual beneficial, for the town and for it's citizens.

Now if the townleader doesn't act on what the market does, they will run out of money and have one big stockpile of the same goods.

Yes, I think this a good evolution, and can be twigged with a few extra options:

- refill the amount to spend, during the day.

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Post by anto_capone Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:24 pm

It doesnt make the market mutually beneficial at all, it makes it adversarial (Town vs. Citizens). Now the town is forced to do things like:

Not buy anything at all (set buying funds at 0 for weeks at time or until everything is sold)
Have one person selling to the town after reset of what the town wants to buy (everything is set to 1 bronze each, except what the town wants to buy that day)
Lower buying prices across the board to avoid influxes or market dumps (I just did this in Spero, right now)
Only set small amounts of buying funds per day (already doing this in Spero)
Not be able to buy large amounts at once (no trade between towns possible now)
Not be able to sell things for break even prices to help citizens (in Spero iron buy/sell is 1. Someone sells the daily limit of iron to the town, then buys it all back right away can stop the town doing business for the rest of the day. If I set the daily buying to 5 silver, someone sells 5000 iron to the town, then buys it all back; town is closed for business and has not gained a friggen thing! I would HAVE to drop iron to 0, but we NEED iron so that is just a stupid situation to be placed in!)


We already had things like hops set at 1 bronze, because it has no use to anyone. Difference is that now, everything except a few things will be treated like hops when they are in fact useful.

Lets give this nice example:
Spero has no wood right now, but there is someone chopping wood for the town right now. When they get back, they will have to log on right after reset to sell their wood to the town. If they can't sell right after reset, then carpenters and bakers won't be able to buy any wood because the town is the only place to buy it and it is already out of spending money for the day. If they don't already have a wood axe, then they might have to wait weeks even for the town to even be able to buy wood.


At least before, if the town went broke buying too much iron when it really need to buy wood we could set a hard maximum on iron. Now, a decently skilled iron miner could bankrupt the town since you cannot go any lower than 1 bronze. Someone comes and sells 2000 iron when the town treasury only has 20 silver in it and no wood and then what happens: we have to sell iron, then wait a day, and hope that someone sells wood before the iron miner sells more iron to the town. Or, we would have to lower iron price to 0?

I can just hear the complaints now of people who accidentally sell their stuff for 0 or 1 bronze....

A person that plans ahead based on current prices will now have no idea. Before you could say, 'well I bought this wood axe for XX amount of money so I need to chop XX amount of wood to break even'. Now, it's just 'I hope that when I am done chopping wood that the price isn't dropped to 0'...

It's just not logical, it adds unnecessary stress and confusion for the citizens and for the town. At least with market stability like before people could plan ahead a lot easier.
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Post by Lord Arogandor Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:03 pm

Dear People,

This update is made with the love for the Seekers, it is not to bother or damage any persons Smile

I agree that things aren't perfect yet, and that we have to work further to improve, however I do believe that returning to the old system is not an improvement.
The new system will take a little more time indeed. Seekers have to pay a little more attention to see what the prices are today. I'm sure in a few days the prices will be more stable.
The town council has to pay a little more attention to the market too. Town Leaders, find a person who and want to manage the town market.

2 additions will be added to improve the system a little more:
- A daily balance with the income and spended funds in the town market.
- another small reset that resets the spending money, so that people after 12 hours can use the market again.

I thank all for their efforts to post their comments Smile

Remember, this game is suposed to be fun & relaxing Smile
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Post by Axel Ackland Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:29 pm

Hey, if town leaders are able to put and take money from the market funds, this would be a good update.

- another small reset that resets the spending money, so that people after 12 hours can use the market again.

Don't do this, make it possible for market overseers to do any time.

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Post by Guest Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:02 pm

I can't see why anybody would bother to sell 5k iron and buy it all back unless they really really hate you anto. Why point to keep Spero from doing business?

I don't see requiring a little attention and thought from the town council as a bad thing. If anything this is an opportunity to get more people more involved. Admittedly I'm pretty much self-sufficient for food so I can see other people not making money being bothered more, but if you can't buy food, it's time to go fishing.

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Post by anto_capone Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:42 pm

Brian wrote:I can't see why anybody would bother to sell 5k iron and buy it all back unless they really really hate you anto. Why point to keep Spero from doing business?

What would it have to do with me? Nothing, if someone can do it, someone will do it eventually.. Wink
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Post by Guest Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:00 am

I think this update just needs some fine tuning Camaar is having a few issues but i am not going to complain about it cause i am still getting used to the system.

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Post by Bracken Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:16 am

anto_capone wrote:
Brian wrote:I can't see why anybody would bother to sell 5k iron and buy it all back unless they really really hate you anto. Why point to keep Spero from doing business?

What would it have to do with me? Nothing, if someone can do it, someone will do it eventually.. Wink

To me, the obvious solution to that exploit is to allow sales to refill the money pot up to the level the town has set. Any money above that goes straight to the town treasury, of course.

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Post by anto_capone Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:30 pm

Bracken wrote:
anto_capone wrote:
Brian wrote:I can't see why anybody would bother to sell 5k iron and buy it all back unless they really really hate you anto. Why point to keep Spero from doing business?

What would it have to do with me? Nothing, if someone can do it, someone will do it eventually.. Wink

To me, the obvious solution to that exploit is to allow sales to refill the money pot up to the level the town has set. Any money above that goes straight to the town treasury, of course.

good idea Smile
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Post by Lord Arogandor Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:21 am

hmmm...

I'm sorry I don't totally catch it. Can a nice fellow please explain the latest idea again?
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Post by Bracken Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:54 am

The town council sets an amount of money to be used on the market (as now). I call it the money pot.

Sales to the town take money out of the money pot.
Purchases from the town put money into the money pot until it reaches the amount the town council has set.
When the money pot is full, money from purchases goes into the normal town treasury instead.

Something like this perhaps:

Town money pot set at 1 silver

X sells 5 wood to town at 20 bronze each

(Money pot now 0)

Y buys 2 wheat from town at 40 bronze each

(Money pot now 80 bronze)

C sells 4 milk to the town at 10 bronze each

(Money pot now 40 bronze)

N buys 4 wood from the town at 25 bronze each

(Money pot now 1 silver, Town treasury +40 bronze)

Etc

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Post by Lord Arogandor Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:00 am

That sounds like a good idea to me!

I will update the code, unless somebody has a good reason why we shouldn't do this?
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Post by Lord Arogandor Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:43 am

*added* cheers

I hope this solves a few of the existing problems Smile
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Post by Guest Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:37 pm

Sounds cool. and if people need money, point out that we don't have any animals bred except maybe a chicken, lol.

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