Farm Fields

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Farm Fields

Post by anto_capone on Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:51 am

Culture Currently in use
Corn 5
Hop 1
Potatoe 0
Vegetable 1
Wheat 5


Ok, a little worried, because our corn fields are actually growing instead of shrinking! Smile

We can't eat corn, only pigs can, and we can't afford to make pigs; they are a sinkhole of money right now.

If you finish your harvest, and then switch field culture, it costs you nothing. If you switch before completing your harvest, you will lose your current progress.

You can eat potatoes and veggies, and wheat can be made into flour (and then into bread). Hops have no function as of this time.


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Re: Farm Fields

Post by anto_capone on Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:52 am

As soon as the town can scrape together 100 wheat, we will begin to upgrade the town field level of wheat fields. This will increase the output of all wheat fields in our town, and make them more profitable to all.

If you have some wheat, or your harvest is coming up, consider selling it to the town. Smile
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Re: Farm Fields

Post by TheHeirtotheThrone on Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:08 am

I already asked Aro if I could get a list of who has each kind of field in my office, then I could have mailed the corn field owners and asked them to change, but he didn't think that was info the town would have.

Its already in the town message, but realistically we can't expect everybody to check that, now its on the forums but again that will only reach a limited audience.

The last option seems to be mass mailing, does anybody know how the town's mass mail feature works? Do we have to pay? Do we have to wait a certain period between mails?
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Re: Farm Fields

Post by anto_capone on Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:53 pm

not sure, but i can send one out
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Re: Farm Fields

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:20 pm

When should someone buy a field? I understand it can be pretty expensive. So how much should someone have saved, or should someone be able to earn in a given week, before they take a field?

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Re: Farm Fields

Post by Airy on Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:39 pm

going rate for workers is 30 bronze per unit at 30 units. = 900 bronze or 9 silver.

Then depending on your field of choice, and with a low farming skill your going to get around 9 to 10 of each product.

Veggies at 75 bronze = 7 silver and 50 bronze.
Wheats at 35 bronze = 3 silver and 50 bronze.

Ummm...crap...

When you get a high farming skill, I know Nogwa completed 6 of my units for 30 bronze each in a single day. THAT is when its profitable to have your own field. To work yourself...crap more...since then your not really supplying the newbies with a field to work on..
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Comparison: Its not all bad in Spero..

Camaar wheat price is: 45 bronze
Camaar average unit wage is: 28 bronze.

(I dont even really need to do the math there to say...field ownership for newbies, isnt a good option.)
________________________________

Meanwhile for oldies:

Anto has a farming skill of 22 and gets 23 bags of wheat for a work unit price of 30 bronze.

His outlay is 9 silver.
His income is 8 silver and 5 bronze.
________________________________

Listen I dont want to be all wet blanket, and Im not trying to be, Anto because of his age, can prolly sustain a loss...for the towns good, Im not really understanding the raising wheat cultures or fields thing..and how thats going to help, Im pretty sure its important and needful (so better clarity there would be great)...but for newbies..I cant recommend personally such a huge loss, specially for wheat. And before you go oh veggies must be the thing, unless you plan on eating them yourself, thereby no hope of atleast making some of your money back, the town cant buy them, its too new itself. Or only 5 at any given time.

I just thought about it, and there is the option of every one of us running our fields at a loss and eating eggs and milk from our cows and chickens, while we do, as is posted anywhere Anto can write it, just about eating eggs and not about the field losses though Wink. What is needed though is a better economic outcome than even getting to 22 farming still and not making a profit. This is by no means a Spero problem as we can see the town of Camaar prices are also out of whack. Perhaps this needs to be dealt with not just here. Or discussed, till then Zeathea (welcome by the way, nice to see that face again) its up to you to decide to run a field or not. But with the realistic understanding that its not there to help you but more to help the town.

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Re: Farm Fields

Post by anto_capone on Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:54 am

its not a straight across the board number.

everyone seems to get 20-30 wheat per cycle so far (have not seen a difference beyond this, wondering if it comes at 25%). its still a loss. also have to consider the town doesnt buy stuff like corn, because pigs are still a money sink.

the wages are higher here in spero, but the food is cheap, so its a trade off that will get better with a culture upgrade (maybe it brings a few more bags each harvest?)
its a good investment, our other option is to drastically lower wages for fields.

a lot of people in spero don't work their own fields, so there are lots of good paying jobs. its not a bad thing, just needs to be made profitable for new people. upgrading the wheat culture helps everyone out. Smile


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Re: Farm Fields

Post by anto_capone on Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:01 am

btw, is a hint that was helpful to me:

dont focus on too many things, try to master 1 thing, then move on to another. so, i applied this to my fields. i have virtually no ploughing or harvesting but i have a decent sowing skill.

some people like to do it all at once, eventually they will have it all, but seems the struggle is longer. Smile
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Re: Farm Fields

Post by Guest on Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:32 am

From reading your responses I am guessing the answer is:

Do not buy a field unless you have the money to lose.

So I will just sit with my two chickens and a cow for now.

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Re: Farm Fields

Post by anto_capone on Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:51 am

well, it depends how much you pay for labor. if you are working your field yourself, and have a decent skill or 3, you can make out fairly well.

i'd like to make it less luck when it comes to wheat, so we can keep providing the free breads in the bistro.

a field is just like any other long term investment, and if done right it can generate income from nothing. a 30 bag wheat harvest is 10.50 sold to the town, even at our high wage prices that could still mean a decent profit. couple that with working some parts of it yourself, building your skill which in turn earns you more later on, and it improves. Smile

i heard someone say it costs 100 stamina to 'buy' a field, this was not always the case so i'm not too sure about it. but for the 'price' of 50 bronze to 1 silver is not a bad deal to me.

i usually try to pay high wages (like 30 bronze a unit, even higher for ploughing) but if I have a bad harvest I usually cant afford to pay that wage consistently. paying 10 silver a cycle is a very high wage, but is nice to do if possible. some people pay 6.50 a cycle and make quite a decent profit. Wink

seems some things are being confused:

going rate for workers is 30 bronze per unit at 30 units. = 900 bronze or 9 silver.

it is a very high rate, when compared to price of food. paying 9 silver for a cycle means you are paying the average worker with 0 skill 60 bronze a day for 2 units, who can then eat for 35 (bread) or 15-20 (egg). thats a daily profit of 25-45 bronze per day. that same worker, if they focused on one skill only, will be making 3 units per day in less than a month. now, that skilled worker is making 55-75 bronze per day after food.

the break even, with cost of bread current (which i am trying to get lowered), would be to pay a wage total of 5.25 silver per cycle. this would leave just enough for people to eat, but they would not save any money with 0 skill. once they have more skill, they make money. (math: 17.5 bronze per unit paid = 35 bronze earned with 80 stamina [2 units] with 0 skill = cost of 1 bread, if they buy eggs they still make money).

i prefer to leave it way it is: more money into new players hands. but the town is not in direct control of wages nor will it be.

Then depending on your field of choice, and with a low farming skill your going to get around 9 to 10 of each product.

Is not true, wheat gives you 20-30 bags each harvest with 0 skill, while corn gives something like 7-11 I believe. I've had potatoes before as well, can cannot remember their yields.

Veggies at 75 bronze = 7 silver and 50 bronze.
Wheats at 35 bronze = 3 silver and 50 bronze.

wheat giving 20 bags per harvest = 7 silver value. 30 bags, 10.50 silver.

upgrading wheat culture will increase the yields of our wheat fields, making them more profitable. this will drive down cost of flour, and as long as we can maintain tool cost down (iron is the real economic issue of all) we can feasibly drop our cost of bread down, increasing gains by all further and helping keep free meals for new players.

if it works well enough for wheat, we can even explore other fields as well, but that's long term. Smile

so, a field can lose or make you money, but lets add in something else mentioned:

When you get a high farming skill, I know Nogwa completed 6 of my units for 30 bronze each in a single day. THAT is when its profitable to have your own field. To work yourself...crap more...since then your not really supplying the newbies with a field to work on..

nogwa's farming skill has nothing to do with it. if you have a high sowing skill, it costs you less stamina to work a unit of sowing. for me it costs me 32 stamina to work one unit of sowing with a skill of 43.582. If I keep raising that skill, the stamina cost for me will lower. the only way to raise the skill is to do it, working in someone elses fields or your own.

farming skill only affects your harvest, and can increase the gains you have on your own field harvest.

the only way to raise your farming skill? for each full cycle on your field it goes up 1%. so like everything else in this world, if you strive to master it; it eventually turns into your profit. those that try to do a bit of everything might struggle more making a living, because they are spreading out their skills.

just for example purpose, here are my field skills:
Farming: 23.000
Ploughing: 1.000
Sowing: 43.582
Harvesting: 4.160

As you can see, I went with sowing myself. Wink
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Re: Farm Fields

Post by anto_capone on Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:53 am

Zeathea wrote:When should someone buy a field? I understand it can be pretty expensive. So how much should someone have saved, or should someone be able to earn in a given week, before they take a field?

so to sum it up, i would get one right away. i heard it costs 100 stamina, but it never used to so idk what is the deal with that. it doesnt cost any money. but your farming skill will never increase without a field. Wink
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Re: Farm Fields

Post by Airy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:07 am

My feild cost me 100 stamina.

I should of put assume in what I think wheat could gather, error there. Based the assumption on Marche's production for his vegetables and my produciton for my corn (had that feild half way through a cycle, so had to see it through.) So I'm pretty happy that I'll get more wheat than I thought with a whole 2 of farming skill.

Basically...if you want a skill increase you have to take that and add it to the equation of the profit from your feild and etc. Pretty soon Im just going to close my eyes and do stuff around here. Neutral . maybe...

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Re: Farm Fields

Post by TheHeirtotheThrone on Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:40 pm

Ok, lets examine this situation. In Spero I have seen most people post around 30b, myself included. As Anto pointed out that is a decent wage, but Im happy with it for now. So according to Airy's wonderful mathematics that is; 30 bronze per unit at 30 units. = 900 bronze or 9 silver.

So once all the work is done and you have brought in your harvest you are left with approx 10 products, except for wheat where you get about double that.

10 Everything but Wheat at 75 bronze = 7 silver and 50 bronze is correct but
20 Wheats at 35 bronze = goes up to about 7.

Now these numbers do very, but this should be average.

So yeah, you are operating at a loss, but what do you expect!? You just walked out the gates and spent a day (100 stamina) clearing out the dead brush, but you are still just scattering your seeds between the rocks and trees.

Honestly, have you ever heard of a business you can just just jump into and make money? No, of course not. It takes investment.

This is where the field upgrades come in. They upgrade to level 2 and a whole bunch of workers come out (with shovels made out of wood or corn or potatoes :S Razz) and clear all the rocks off of the fields of one type. Suddenly you are making an extra 2 products each time.

12 Everything but Wheat at 75 bronze = 9
22 Wheats at 35 bronze = 7.70

Look at that, any culture but wheat is suddenly cutting even. But those pesky trees are still in the way so the town upgrades to level 3 and hires workers to cut them down (with organic saws no less) and now you are making a profit.

With each further upgrade now the profit will increase, but starting capital to get to profitability in each field type is high though, so when we have more towns one could specialize in Wheat, another in Corn, an extra rich one in veggies AND potatoes. But they would have to trade between them to get everything they need.

Now there are 1 point I think that could be improved is the bonus on wheat fields, right now its 2 extra wheat, but since wheat is half the price of everything else, and you get twice as much should the bonus not be 4? That would make wheat break even at level 2 and a profit at level 3 like the rest of the fields.

Another point is that with the small number of towns we have right now, each town can't specialize in 1 culture, they need 2 or 3 in each town, and no overlap. Now I hear Cammar is rich, but right now I know Spero cannot afford to upgrade 2 fields each to level 3 in order to make a profit. So maybe we could get some help on the funding for the first 1 or 2 levels. Knowing Anto though I think he would like to be able to say that he was the leader of the first town to get a fully functional economy without admin help, and personally I know Spero has what it takes to get there on our own, it will just take some time, and our citizens willing to work at a loss. Anto is Smurfmaster though, so I will leave it up to him if we want to request assistance or not.

Later with 3, 4, 5+ towns I would say no for sure, at that point you can concentrate on one culture, and there would be other towns who are exporting all the different goods already.

My 2 cents.

and sorry for the lack of layout, Ill try to fix that later.
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Re: Farm Fields

Post by anto_capone on Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:47 pm

your math is off

its 20-30 wheat each harvest, and it isnt guaranteed 10 of other fields. i've had harvests of 7 corn and 15 potatoes
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Re: Farm Fields

Post by Airy on Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:48 am

AND basically your asking people to live in an rp realistic world where you struggle, struggle than it pays off. Seriously IF that is the case, then advertise it as so. Speak about it as so, or your going to get people like myself, like Marche who start out here and crunch the numbers and go ummm it aint working.

I still try and muddle my field along, but I kinda stuff that up sometimes with the rp aspect of my life here...I bought a fishing rod, cause I want to go fishing Sad...now I dont have the money to hire for my field anyway. Hindsight...

Can I say if you need to teach every newb that figures out their field isnt viable, this stuff, either explain it somewhere. Or there must be an adjustment to letting newbs get fields or rather not getting fields and recommending they work peoples fields that have reached level 3 :/ It could work, people willing to hire to have their fields worked could get a phase worked in a day.

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Re: Farm Fields

Post by anto_capone on Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:30 am

not sure what you are asking. i learned and am still learning all this stuff as we go, but there are threads and posts somewhere explaining more. Wink

there is no cookie cutter way to live in this world, but if someone wants to make an unofficial guide they are more than welcome. Smile
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Re: Farm Fields

Post by Airy on Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:48 pm

Meh, Im sorry, HALF the time I wonder if Im looking foolish, the rest that Im bothering people that already know it all.

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Re: Farm Fields

Post by Axel Ackland on Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:18 pm

there is no cookie cutter way to live in this world, but if someone wants to make an unofficial guide they are more than welcome. Smile

Idk bro, when I was about a month old, I made 70 silver in 4 days of work Wink

Anyways, I could help out with financing of culture upgrades, plan on buying one or two more horses Razz. But can't responsibly do that till Aro creates a way to transport animals between towns. It's on his to-do list, but not his important to-do list lol

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Re: Farm Fields

Post by anto_capone on Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:50 pm

well thats just the thing, in this world, money cannot buy everything. it certainly can make things easier, but the do all end all is not money Wink

i fluctuate from 5-30 silver myself, thats all i carry, is all i need.
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Re: Farm Fields

Post by Airy on Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:52 am

Personally and I forgot to mention, that Id rather we did the upgrades in the old fashioned way and earned them. Not throw money at them.

My queries and concerns on how fields dont work, wasnt because people should own money. But simply because the mechanics werent adding up.

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Re: Farm Fields

Post by anto_capone on Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:43 am

Airy wrote:Personally and I forgot to mention, that Id rather we did the upgrades in the old fashioned way and earned them. Not throw money at them.

My queries and concerns on how fields dont work, wasnt because people should own money. But simply because the mechanics werent adding up.

sorry this doesnt make sense. there is no cost to you or me to upgrade the culture, the town itself makes the upgrade, and it's already paid for. Very Happy

seriously, there is no old fashioned way, except the way we do it lol
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Re: Farm Fields

Post by Airy on Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:29 am

Shocked ummm then for me that means the old fashioned way, the way its done, not by cheating (not that I mean it as real cheating, just advancing before game allows, whatever).. just an expression :/

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Re: Farm Fields

Post by anto_capone on Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:32 pm

if you are harvesting please post your harvest amount Smile

(for whatever field, this helps market costs)
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Re: Farm Fields

Post by Marche on Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:35 pm

I got 10 Vegetables with my Harvest. Not working on it any more due the losses incurred.
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Re: Farm Fields

Post by anto_capone on Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:14 am

Thanks, and tbh, I think you should open your field back up, as one of the few veg fields left in town.

At least for the data! Smile

anyways:

Culture In use Taxation Upgrade Progress
Corn 5 0% 1 100%
Hop 1 0% 1 100%
Potatoe 0 0% 1 100%
Vegetable 2 0% 1 100%
Wheat 8 0% 1 100%

This is what we have. too much corn, we don't need corn until the town can afford to take an expense that is pigs. We are close.

Point is, corn is useless right now. Its only good for pigs, we can't even eat it. Potatoes are a good choice for a miner, eating potatoes builds resistance. We have 0 potato fields, and almost 1/3 of our town fields are corn, well, it makes no sense.

Luckily, it doesn't cost you anything to change the culture of your field, just do it after you complete and receive your harvest. Otherwise, you will either keep your useless corn; or, have something economically viable to sell. Smile

i'm mass mailing this to all, and posting this on the forum so all can react and respond. we are growing slowly, but surely. Our town is doing quite well. Smile
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