Town Entrance

I agree with you that being able to fight the guard without any cost for stamina is quite a loop-hole.  But I do still think that to enter town while breaking the law, you should be able to fight your way through.

But anyway my upset-ness was from not having the freedom to choose what reputation seekers can enter the town with.  And also with the whole town not being able to see who owes what taxes thing I'm a little salty about, even though its not on topic, I'd like to set a limit being stopped by the town guard so you can leave town without paying taxes if its under the limit, too.

Lord Arogandor wrote:

Before this update, Seekers could just keep killing the town guard over and over again without any issues or even losing stamina! This loop-hole is now closed!

damn, wish i thought of that. i could have made some camaar guard soup!  

sound like a needed change tho.

Well when players can be the guard I'll be sure to volunteer for Spero. Let's see who survives

Only Marche would stand a chance, and he's also from Spero. The next top combatants are Axel and I. And we're also Spero. I don't think Spero has a lot to worry about  

I know I looked at the combat list, Spero seems like a violent bunch ;D

I already gave you my opinion on this, I will post it here too:

"What I would do would be: Having a town guard with a given starting level. Then any upgrade of the given structure would make the town guard stronger and less prone to bribery. Towns would want to do this since they don't want people to evade their taxing.

That would just be it...

Say structure starts with level 1. The guard is therefore weak (level 7 or something). For each level of upgrade, the guard could increase 2 levels, and there would be no maximum limit for a town to upgrade its guard (like the field upgrades)

What could be spent to upgrade it is up to you... You know what's lacking and in excess. What seems natural Roleplaying-speaking is stone (for the walls) and iron (for the weapons) for the upgrade.

Important as well, if doing this change, is to give the mayors three months in advance with the "old guard", while allowing them to do those upgrades in the meanwhile!

A naming suggestion for the guards could be Town Guard I; Town Guard II, and so on."

I don't think having people defending the town for now would be a good solution, until you do the revamp you want to do in the battling system: That is, having player vs. player, having groups and etc... Having pvp just on the town walls doesn't seem right.

There's still a loophole regarding the town guard needing to be fixed... The Camaar town guard has been crushed in the past few days many times by the same seeker. This really means it is still profitable to beat him over and over and over... For battle exp, for money.... I don't know how, but it is still being explored.

I don't see why this is an issue right now, there's no cost to the town for replacing those guards or for upkeep.

It costs us money to train on the guards to heal, we also lose reputation and even stamina, though not much stamina.

Thing is... the way combat is setup is its difficult to level without fighting monsters higher level than you because the exp gained is based on your Lvl and the monsters lvl. I am lvl 15, for me, and others with high lvls, we prefer to spend extra to fight the guard because hes lvl 20.... the next highest lvl foe is the warg which is lvl 14.

I think if course more opposition should be added, but I'm still promoting the idea of making the monsters you encounter be based on where you are on the world map. For example a warg would be a common encounter for any lvl player in perhaps a mountainy area, while it would he unlikely (but still possible) to see one on a road, there bambis would be quite common

I just wanna say about the recent change to the cost of the combat practice grail reward... changing it from 50 to 60 means very very little. The exploitablility of this reward is already available to real life loaded players and the change has little to no effect on it. This does however negatively effect the average players ability to use this reward.

Nothings happened yet but the same upset over the grail rewards being exploited last year to max learning skill last year. I know at least two players that quit literally because of how that was handled. The way the grail token system is setup is absolutely retarded and I think its safe to say there is a solid possibility of the potential exploits to just cause more players to quit. Couldn't even blame em.

Lord Arogandor wrote:I'll try to find a solution for the town guard spam killing.

Leave the town guard be please, it is extremely costly to 'farm' the town guards. My Camaar reputation is zero which means it costs me 1 silver every time I enter Camaar now. If I stay over night in Camaar, I risk being attacked or whatever other negative events there are for such a low reputation. Plus, I have to spend a lot on healing, about 2-5 silver per day.

I do propose that a training grounds be made, somewhere we can go to spend some time and gain some xp. Also, decrease the chance of encountering lower level monsters when traveling. To spend 20 stamina searching for monsters, only to find a bambi or bunny that gives you 1 xp can get frustrating.

Axel Ackland wrote:I don't see why this is an issue right now, there's no cost to the town for replacing those guards or for upkeep.

It costs us money to train on the guards to heal, we also lose reputation and even stamina, though not much stamina.

Thing is... the way combat is setup is its difficult to level without fighting monsters higher level than you because the exp gained is based on your Lvl and the monsters lvl.  I am lvl 15, for me, and others with high lvls, we prefer to spend extra to fight the guard because hes lvl 20.... the next highest lvl foe is the warg which is lvl 14.

I think if course more opposition should be added, but I'm still promoting the idea of making the monsters you encounter be based on where you are on the world map.  For example a warg would be a common encounter for any lvl player in perhaps a mountainy area, while it would he unlikely (but still possible) to see one on a road, there bambis would be quite common

I just wanna say about the recent change to the cost of the combat practice grail reward... changing it from 50 to 60 means very very little.  The exploitablility of this reward is already available to real life loaded players and the change has little to no effect on it.  This does however negatively effect the average players ability to use this reward.

Nothings happened yet but the same upset over the grail rewards being exploited last year to max learning skill last year.  I know at least two players that quit literally because of how that was handled.  The way the grail token system is setup is absolutely retarded and I think its safe to say there is a solid possibility of the potential exploits to just cause more players to quit.  Couldn't even blame em.

I don't mind Aro trying to make some money, but P2W does suck. I'm not a hater, I just think it kills the competitive spirit of the game. This goes for ANY game.

I like to compete, is my nature. But if it changes into something in which the only way to remain competitive is to spend real life money- then there really is no point anymore in playing.

anto_capone wrote:

Lord Arogandor wrote:I'll try to find a solution for the town guard spam killing.

Leave the town guard be please, it is extremely costly to 'farm' the town guards. My Camaar reputation is zero which means it costs me 1 silver every time I enter Camaar now. If I stay over night in Camaar, I risk being attacked or whatever other negative events there are for such a low reputation. Plus, I have to spend a lot on healing, about 2-5 silver per day.

I do propose that a training grounds be made, somewhere we can go to spend some time and gain some xp. Also, decrease the chance of encountering lower level monsters when traveling. To spend 20 stamina searching for monsters, only to find a bambi or bunny that gives you 1 xp can get frustrating.

It is costly... Yet it's so costly it's still profitable to do so, isn't it?

The point is... If it is something that does not make much sense logically speaking (leaving, re-entering, killing a guard 20 times the same day), coupled with someone doing it, it is because it is profitable. I don't know what's the reason behind it... money drops, combat exp... I don't know, because I can't do that exploit, my combat level is only 10. But if it is done, it is because those people have a reason to do so.

The training grounds idea, with increased levels, where seekers can trade stamina for battle exp is a great idea... Could be another useful town building.

But the town guard respawn thing is just argh, sorry. And I am too extremely competitive by nature

But its not profitable, thats the point. You can only do it for a limited time or have unlimited resources, and you always risk going to jail. It costs healing potions, and lots of them.

Then why do you do it? Must be because you think it is profitable

In terms of money, it may mean a loss... but maybe you reap the benefits through battle exp? Idk...

Im just saying, and it may never happen, but the possibility for this reward to be exploited and piss people off is there. The point is we should not have rewards that could cause people to quit the game. We should learn from what happened with the learning skill reward, we did lose players directly from how that was handled. Id prefer to see it fixed beforehand rather than after it happens. Its thinking ahead and shouldn't have to be abused before its changed. The whole system for grail tokens should be addressed too.

About the new update to take away the loophole regarding retreating from the guard.... I think it should be held off until there is more depth in crime/enforcement. But if that's not a preferred option a few things should be added right away. When being caught while sneaking out the player should have the options to reenter the town and pay off their debt as well as fighting... currently you can reenter town without combat, only its a hidden option that you can only use my simply going to a different page. Also allowing towns to set caps for allowing visitors and citizens to leave town with some debt should be included... also it'd be sweet if we could impose a tax upon entering the town and it would add depth to managing towns. To stop players from sneaking out and trying again multiple times you could add a time limit you needa wait similar to hunting.

Harold, repeating the same thing does not make your argument any more convincing. There's a hell of a lot of stuff that needs to be done with town guards, crime, and combat, taking away the one decent way for people higher than lvl 14 to train before improving anything else is not the answer.

No Axel... that's the thing. No one below level 14 has a good way of training. None of us does. All of us have to waste stamina to find weak, medium and strong monsters.

It looks hard, because the exp needed to progress from 14 to 15 is very high... and that's how it should be. Once you attain that level 12 or something... there's a way to win exp more quickly than the others... even though each point of exp is less useful.

Of course the changes should be deeper... people owe a lot of money in taxes to town that town should have instruments to recoup.. It is indeed unrealistic to enter town and not face the guard, given you owe taxes or are unwanted for some reason, etc etc... all those things could be fixed/introduced for sure.

But as it is done, we could take the exploit out. And I have discussed some things with Aro that could solve it, involving town and town structures...

Well, share your ideas with the rest of the forum!

Here's the thing... its quite difficult to compare training on town guards to training on the rest of foes.

Unlike normal foes yes, you have a guarantee of facing a town guard everytime with a guaranteed cost of only 1 stamina. Id also like to point that the exp i gain from a guard is probably very similar to what you would gain from a warg.. a little more than 200 exp. But there is a variety of other differences anyway.

1. You always lose 100 town reputation, there are many different effects that can be caused from this, a major one is being barred from entering the town without sneaking in or bribing the town guard, which has varying success, the most surefire way to enter then is to pay 1 silver, but you still have a 10% chance to lose that 1 silver without entering.

2. As anto said, if you lose your fight you'll wind up in that towns jail rather than in your hometown hospital like you would have if you lost fighting a normal foe... the effects from this can vary very widely but it most often causes a longer time of being incapacitated as well as starving and loss of stats.

3. You do not have a chance of getting the often very useful encounters. There's many of em, some more useful than others, often depending on your current status. These can only happen when you are traveling on the world map and not over towns.

4. You will not improve your riding/walking/swimming skills. These are very useful to traveling the map more quickly and take a long time to raise.

I think that's all I can think of right now

Now I still think the exploit of retreating for them should remain until more is added. As a tax dodger in camaar I couldn't care less, I can fairly easily beat the guard even without full health thanks to my stats and my armor. As the town leader of spero I would definitely prefer to be able to choose a legal limit of taxes owed to allow leaving town while in debt. I mean its probably not a common experience, but say a woodcutter or a miner only has 1 silver but owes 2 silver debt, this would mean they couldn't leave town to make their money at what they do best to pay off their debt.

Now, ill find a way to give spero the possibility to work around this function of the game, cause I don't like the way it currently stands. But it'd be nice to work through the system rather than around it.

Can something come of this discussion? At least some options when trying to sneak out of town?